The pan-European trend to abolish blasphemy laws

The text was presented by Fotis Frangopoulos, representing Atheist Alliance International, at the congress “Blasphemy and Multiculturalism” in the Panteion University, Athens, on November 24, 2018. You may watch the speech and comment on the Atheist Union of Greece youtube channel.


A composition of texts by Dimitris Dimoulis, professor of Constitutional Law in the São Paulo Law School, Getulio Vargas Foundation.

Thank you Mrs President,

Good evening from Atheist Alliance International, an international organization with a mission for a more secular world. We would like to thank Mr. Paparizos for the invitation and give congratulations to the organizers of this great conference that keeps us interested since yesterday morning.

Many thanks of course to professor of constitutional law, Dimitris Dimoulis, who gave full use of his two texts by extracts from which this speech was drawn up. A theoretical one that was included in the book “Earthly Protectors of God” in the “Editors’ Newspaper” and an article presenting the pan-European trend to abolish blasphemy laws and is titled: England, France, Denmark, *beep* Virgin Mary…
(The countries’ names in Greek rhyme with a very common Greek swear phrase.)

We begin with England:

Blasphemy has been a crime for centuries in England based on case law. It is a country of hereditary monarchy. It has a state religion led by the monarch and is characterized, as it is widely known, by the attachment to agelong traditions. In practice, the criminalization of blasphemy had fallen into disuse. Its last victim appears to have been Mr. John Gott who described Jesus as a circus jester and was sentenced in 1922 to nine months’ imprisonment and forced labor. Since then, even when the offence was apparent, the courts have found workarounds and excuses not to condemn persons exercising their freedom of expression, guaranteed by the English legal tradition and, most recently, the European conventions. Fanatic Christians and Muslims though have brought the judges into trouble with their lawsuits against “blasphemers”. The parliament had been pressured by committees and organizations to decriminalize blasphemy, but it has not done so.

When an English teacher was convicted of blasphemous acts in Sudan in 2008, great mobilization took place in her country. But some pointed out that it was not reasonable for the British to complain about Sudan’s counter–freedom and backward legislation while blasphemy is still a crime in their country. The abolition movement was strengthened. Even the Anglican Church leadership said it did not oppose the abolition of the offence. The parliament decriminalized blasphemy on 08-05-2008. And it did so in a few simple words: “The customary offences of blasphemy and blasphemous publication are abolished in England and Wales” (Article 79 (1) of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act).

In France, a country of enlightenment and structurally distant from the Catholic and any other church, blasphemy was not an offence ever since the time of the 1789 Declaration that guaranteed free expression, regardless of what the secular or religious authorities believe and want. A historically interpreted exception concerned the Alsace and Lorraine regions. When they were annexed to France at the end of the First World War, these areas retained parts of German law, particularly on religious and labor issues. Articles 166 and 167 of the Local Criminal Code provided for imprisonment of up to three years for “public blasphemy against God”. As in England, the provisions had been inactive for decades and many had called for their abolition.

In 2013, a union of Muslim lawyers sued the Charlie Hebdo magazine in Strasbourg, citing the local law. The court considered the proceedings invalid, but the case left a trauma. The ridicule of sacred things is not an offence in Paris, but it can send you to prison in Strasbourg if the magazine is also sold there. On January 2015, as we all know, the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo’s offices was made, imposing silence of death on its associates. At a time when almost all France declared “Nous sommes Charlie” and spoke against the bigoted murderers, it would be grotesque for an Alsace tribunal to sue that same magazine for blasphemy.
Many organizations, including the Alsatian religious leaders of all great religions, called for the abolition of blasphemy provisions. So, with the blessing of the shepherds as well as of the flocks, the French Parliament put a clause into a law on social policy, the Article 172 which repealed Articles 166 and 167 of the Alsatian and Lorraine Penal Code for blasphemy. The law came into force on 27-01-2017, throwing in the rubbish of history the remnant of pre-enlightenment blasphemy ban in France.

Denmark. Hereditary monarchy with state religion, the Evangelical Folkekirke, and tremendous respect for traditions and for “community” life. For centuries, it has been a crime to ridicule or defame the divine, a prohibition ever since 1866 by the §140 of the Penal Code, providing a sentence of imprisonment of up to four months. No one has been convicted for blasphemy in Denmark since 1946. Nonetheless, religious fanatics continued to sue the “blasphemers”, including the journalists who in 2005 published cartoons with Muhammad in the Jyllands-Posten newspaper. And while the Danes were stunned by the Muslims who burned Danish flags across the globe and attacked the country’s embassies because of some cartoon publication in a provincial newspaper, the journalists of the newspaper faced criminal prosecutions in their country!

The absurdity was intensified in 2015 when prosecution was brought against a Dane who published a facebook video in which he burned a copy of the Koran in his garden. This gentleman may be rude or foolish. But can the Danish state imprison him because he expresses his opinion? In February 2016, there were attacks with dead and wounded in Copenhagen against “infidels” by a Danish Muslim. It was impossible for the trial against the “facebook blasphemer” to continue. Following consultations and pressure from organizations, the Danish Parliament passed Law 675 on 08-06-2017. Let us all admire the Doric simplicity of the provision: “paragraph 140 is abolished.”
(Doric = Laconic, taciturn, austere, terse).

By abolishing the blasphemy offence, England, France and Denmark secured more freedom for their citizens and they became more civilised. Similarly, Norway, Iceland and Malta have decriminalized blasphemy in recent years.
Since this article’s publication, Ireland has been added to the countries that decriminalized blasphemy, the Spanish Government has also expressed the same intention.

Let’s get to ourselves.

The abolition of blasphemy is legally and politically imperative. It will solve practical problems and will allow everyone to express their views on religious issues without facing the possibility of persecution for an offence without a victim and without sufficient constitutional justification.
The prohibition of blasphemy does not have either generic or specific prudential functions. It only develops symbolic results, providing penal support to state religiosity, showing in other words to everyone that the state disapproves and punishes the insult to the divine. This message, however, is contrary to the modern constitutional organization and shows that criminal law is used for political purposes, which is also contrary to its promises, protection of the “legal rights” of individuals. The practical functioning of the blasphemy provision is therefore the main argument for its abolition.

The last and decisive argument for the abolition is that the ban on blasphemy in Greece does not protect religions in general, but the Orthodox Church exclusively. The police and the public prosecutor’s office undertake the daily ratification of state piety by suppressing “daily blasphemy”, and Orthodox operatives, paid by the state, sometimes in consultation with far-right politicians, persecute artists who disturb them. No prosecution has been made for decades to defend any other religion, demonstrating the actual and extremely discriminatory functioning of those provisions in practice. In this case, state criminal justice functions as a kind of private security for a single religion and obeys to the ritual of confirmation for the state religiosity.

The experience abroad shows that there is a constant stream of abolitions as we have seen. In addition to the liberal principles, it has been realized that persecutions and convictions exacerbate the spirits and threaten social peace much more than a phrase or artwork. Even those who consider Charlie Hebdo’s irony distasteful and reproachable cannot tolerate a situation where states prosecute and imprison precisely those whom religious terrorists want to kill.

In Greece the constitutional, political and cultural existence of a dominant religion – and, through it, the prevalence of religiosity in public life – poses great obstacles to reform efforts. No political “change” after the end of the military dictatorship has been able to decolorize the state from religion. Feudal remnants of religious content are particularly resilient and the abolition of the blasphemy provision without deeper changes in the constitutional self-understanding of the Greek state seems impossible.

However, no political “realism” should prevent legal-political criticism and social struggle for the elimination of regulations that citizens consider unacceptable and the state should abolish for reasons of consistency with its constitutional pronouncements.

The decriminalization of blasphemy is a tiny and timid step towards civilization of the state. A minimal step, but an absolutely necessary one, *beep* Jesus *beep*…
(A very common Greek swear phrase that demonstrates indignation.)

Keep reading…

Atheists: Villains or victims?

The text was presented by Vassiliki Koitsanou, president of the Atheist Union of Greece, at the congress “Blasphemy and Multiculturalism” in the Panteion University, Athens, on November 23, 2018. You may watch the speech and comment on the Atheist Union of Greece youtube channel.


It has been said that blasphemy is a victimless crime. Blasphemy affects ideas, not persons. The challenge, the satire, or even the ridicule of any idea is freedom of speech, which must not only be allowed, but also protected. Religious views and ideas should be no exception.

This is precisely the crucial point where we must focus.

Defenders of the penalization of blasphemy say that thus we preserve religious peace and protect the religious freedom of believers of the affected religions. But what is this “religious peace”? How does it differ from peace in general? Why should it be dealt with in a special way?

Peace and public order are already protected by various laws. What impels lawmekers to specifically mention religious peace is on one hand the extreme touchiness of believers, who identify with their views in such a degree that they consider a personal insult everything that challenges them, and on the other the excessive respect of society towards religious ideas a respect not extended to other types of ideologies.

Why do we treat religious views with special care? Why do we value religious touchiness so much?

If we challenge a political ideology or a football team their followers might get angry and commit acts of violence, disrupting public order. But no one suggests pennalization of insulting a political ideology or a football team to avoid disturbing “political peace” or “football peace”. Followers of these ideas are penalized, if they get violent, but not so those who insulted their ideology.

In the case of blasphemy, however, the exact opposite is true.

In our mind, we indentify blasphemy with insults, but it is not limited to this nor is it necessary to insult in order to blaspheme. For example, the Atheist Union organizes every year the “Just Supper” and the celebration of the “Alcoholy Spirit”. The titles of these celebrations can be considered blasphemous because they are word games based on large christian holidays. But this is not insulting, nor offensive.

It is merely challenging the holiness of a dogma.

This is the real reason they cause annoyance. The same reason that annoyance is caused by works of art or by satirical stories, while no one cares about the everyday insult of the divine by angry drivers or with the ridicule of the habits of priests and nuns from countless blasphemers who dress as such during Carnival.

As far as religious freedom is concerned, it is obviously not in the least limited by blasphemy. Hard criticism, satire and ridicule may displease some people, but it doesn’t stop believers from following their religious duties.

The law must protect free expression of religion, but at the same time it must be perfectly clear that religions themselves are no more than belief systems and ideologies, and that criticism and comment must be totally free in a modern society who strives for progress. The law must protect the expression of criticism instead of penalizing it.

This fact is understood by most European countries which one by one abolish blasphemy clauses from their laws. In 2008 they were repealed in England and Wales, in 2009 in Norway, in 2014 in the Netherlands, in 2015 in Iceland, in 2016 in Malta, in 2017 in France and Denmark. Most recent is the case of Ireland, where on October 26, 2018 it was decided by public vote to abolish the constitutional clause penalizing blasphemy. Nevertheless, in 21st century Greece blasphemy is still a criminal offence.

In June 2012, the police arrested three actors of the play “Corpus Christi” when a complaint was filed for defamation of religion and malicious blasphemy. The district attorney released the three artists but criminal proceedings were opened against them. The Holy Synod had declared the play “blasphemous” and “despicable”.

In September 2012 creator of satirical webpage “Elder Pastitsios” was arrested on charges for malicious blasphemy and defamation of religion a few days after the subject was brought to the parliament by the political party Golden Dawn and only four days after the negative reply of Konstantinos Karagounis, then Minister of Justice, with the silent consent of the rest of the parliament, to the request of MP Petros Tatsopoulos of the SYRIZA party for abolition of the Penal Code articles on blasphemy.

A 10 months suspended sentence was imposed for reiterant defamation of religion. He appealed and finally the prosecution stopped due to another law, that eliminated penality of minor offences. But he was not found innocent and the shameful articles of the Penal Code are still valid and are still enforced, against freedom of speech.

In June 2016 the Atheist Union of Greece, member of Atheist Alliance International and the European Humanist Federation, cosigns with 54 organizations from all over the world a joint petition that was sent to the Ministry of Justice asking for the abolition of the blasphemy articles from the Greek Penal Code.

Eight years after the arrests, in spite of the change of goverment in spite of repeated actions of the people and MPs in spite of the fact that Greek society is mature enough Greece hasn’t dared abolish these outdated articles of the Penal Code.

Greece has always been a crossroad of civlizations. Today, more than ever, it is home to a mosaic of people from all over the world, while every day more immigrants and refugees arrive, many of whom stay in our country permanently bringing with them their culture, their traditions and of course their religion. Many of them are atheists, as we are in a position to know, because many of them contact us for help and support. Meanwhile, more and more Greeks become estranged from traditional religions. They either create a more modern, more personal spirituality or they become irreligious, atheists, or agnostics.

All these people compose a complex landscape full of various ideas and beliefs, very different from one another. All of these ideas will of course be talked about, will be the subject of debate and criticism often even of scorn, satire or mockery. It is unrealistic to try and keep them immune. It is outrageous to attempt it by making the insult of ideas a criminal offence.

Blasphemy affects ideas, not people. Blasphemers not only do not harm anyone but they themselves are in danger, not only from touchy persons who might attack them like in the play of “Corpus Christi”, but also from the state that punishes them instead of protecting them as it should.

In the Atheist Union of Greece, years ago we drew up a proposal for the separation of church and state where we ask, among other things for abolition of all discriminations and penalizations that have a religious base.

We ask for abolition of the 7th chapter of the Penal Code “Threats to Religious Peace”. Articles 198, 199 and 200 must be completely abolished, while article 201 on vilification of the dead can be transferred to another chapter. The real offences described here are already covered by articles on disruption of public order on insult and defamation. No special provision is needed for the disruption of the so-called “religious” peace. Regarding blasphemy, that is insulting religious dogmas in any form it may take place, even through satire or mockery, it is not a crime from the state’s viewpoint but freedom of speech.

And freedom of speech should not be negotiable.

Thank you.

Keep reading…

“Elder Pastitsios” Arrest Rekindles Debate on Blasphemy Laws in Greece

 
Source: Center for Inquiry


The following post comes to us from CFI supporter Simon, who grew up in Greece and has been following a new case of persecution for blasphemy—a case which has been largely ignored by the English-speaking media.  

*  *  * 

On Friday September 21 in the village of Psahna in the Evia Prefecture of Greece, the Police Electronic Crimes Unit arrested* a 27 year old male atheist Greek citizen on charges of malicious blasphemy and offense of religion. His name has not been made available publicly due to to the country’s privacy laws.The arrest came about after the authorities discovered that he is the administrator of a now-removed satirical Facebook page for “Elder Pastitsios” after receiving over one hundred thousand complaints including some death threats. The news of the arrest created a worldwide interest in the case with the Twitter hashtag #FreeGeronPastitsios becoming a global trending topic and a relevant petition by the Humanist Union of Greece has received over 9,000 signatures so far on Change.org. The Greek Atheist Union will hold a protest in Athens outside parliament on Friday September 28 demanding that the charges be dropped and that the blasphemy laws be repealed.

The Facebook page was for a fictional character based on well-known deceased Greek Orthodox monk Elder Paisios, where his name and face were substituted with “pastitsio”- a local pasta and bechamel dish. Elder Paisios is believed by many Orthodox Greeks to have performed numerous miracles and prophecies both during his life and after his death in 1994. His place of burial in Northern Greece is a frequent destination by believers seeking miracles and books with stories about his teachings and prophecies are quite popular.

The district attorney will prosecute only the charge of offense of religion which carries a maximum penalty of two years imprisonment, however prosecutions under the statute have been very rare in recent years and he is not expected to receive jail time. A trial date has not yet been set.

Four days before the arrest on September 17, MP Christos Pappas from the neo-nazi Golden Dawn party had brought the page to the attention of the justice minister and submitted an official inquiry into why the Facebook page was not being addressed by the Eletronic Crimes Unit. According to site NewsIt*, the police claim they had already concluded their investigation two days before the question was raised in parliament. Following the publication of the arrest, Greece’s leftist primary opposition party SYRIZA strongly denounced* the arrest as did it’s offshoot and now ruling coalition junior partner Democratic Left as well as the Greek Communist Party. Center-left party PASOK -also a member of the ruling coalition- issued a more tepid response opposing the arrest but affirming the need to “protect religious and national identity”. Golden Dawn lauded the arrest stating* that their MP’s question “mobilized the government into taking action”.

According to the page’s administrator, he angered many in the Greek Orthodox church leadership after he created a fictional story* of a posthumous miracle by Elder Paisios which was submitted to various Orthodox and far-right blogs in July and then it was reproduced both online and even on a far-right newspaper. The story was based on several existing tales that were already circulating online and involved a miraculous recovery of a teenage drug addict who had been in a coma after a car accident after his mother placed dirt from Elder Paisios’ grave in a talisman under her son’s pillow.

In the an interview* after his arrest, he states that he did this not only to expose the gullibility of the faithful, but primarily to show the poor fact-checking done by these sites. After he detailed this on the “Elder Pastitsios” page on July 26, both it’s popularity and the amount of hostile comments increased substantially compared to the past year in which he had been posting similar satirical content without incident. He has suspended the page voluntarily and stated that he may re-enable it for an hour so people can see what all the fuss is about. He says that he is an atheist because he likes to think for himself and that he has proven his point regarding the reliability of miracle testimonials and the exploitation of alleged prophecies by religious figures. He plans on focusing his future activism on the repeal of Greece’s blasphemy laws.

*Links to sites in Greek.

Keep reading…


This article was originally posted on the Center for Inquiry blog in English and reposted here with permission. You can direct your comments there.

So why an atheist?

 
Columnist:Cafeeine


It is a common point on online discussions about atheism to focus on the meaning of the word itself. Atheism, as used by many atheists and the definition that I use when I say I’m an atheist is ‘lacking a belief in the existence of a god or gods’, but this is not a sufficient explanation for some people. I will try to address why I choose the atheist label for myself.

To begin with, many people want to push forward the idea that atheism is the absolute belief that no gods exist. The definition does in fact exist, but it describes a belief that most sophisticated atheists do not hold. It is also notably a subset of the above definition, as you cannot logically have a belief in the non-existence of gods without lacking the belief that one exists, although the opposite is true.

This is a frustrating point in many discussions, since the proponent of the second definition accuses atheists of not knowing what our position is, and subsequently demanding that we defend the second claim which, they contend, reflects our “true position”.

This of course is asinine. Once I have clarified what I mean when I use the term ‘atheism’, my explicit position on the subject is what I will maintain. Even if I were to agree that the term solely applied to the second definition, the rational course of action would be to choose a different label to apply to my position, not change my position to reflect the label. Consider how silly this sounds if we try this rationale elsewhere:

– “Hey, I’m a Teabagger.”
-”What’s that?”
-”It means I’m a member of the Tea Party.”
-”No, it doesn’t. This dictionary describes teabagging as a deviant sex practice”
-”Really? *reads definition* Oh well. I better get to it then, where’s the nearest sex shop?”

It’s absurd. Dictionaries reflect usage, they don’t impose it. New coinages and new meanings for old words occur every day, so to deny the definition I proclaim because it isn’t in your reference book of choice is just lazy thinking at best.

This absurdity is rarely mentioned because of the most obvious fault of the position, that my definition of atheism is in fact the one used by most atheists to describe themselves amongst ourselves. This isn’t a new idea, it’s been around of years. This is what we mean, and this is the position I should defend. For a theist to argue with me on the matter of definition is just disingenuous.

A number of the people who promote the ‘belief no gods exist’ definition claim that the ‘lacking a belief in god’ is so vague that babies, animals or even inanimate matter could be classified as ‘atheist’. They claim that these categories can’t be atheist, since they couldn’t accept theism even in principle.

I don’t see that as a problem. Atheism is a negation of theism (which is ‘belief in at least one god’), and the same ‘problem’ can be posited on many words that describe a negative.

A teetotaler is someone who abstains completely from alcoholic beverages. By that definition you can describe a baby as a teetotaler, but that doesn’t mean its capable of going to a bar and asking for a drink. Illiteracy is the absence of the ability to read, which by definition makes both newborns and butterflies illiterate, but doesn’t imply that butterflies can learn. Death is the absence of life, yet we can describe barren rocks as being dead, and even metal objects such as doornails (of the ‘dead as a doornail’ variety) . That you can call rocks ‘atheist’ is not wrong, it just isn’t useful, just like it isn’t useful to call a butterfly illiterate, or a baby a teetotaler.

I will however make a concession here to theists, and that is, when I am talking about atheism being the default position, and when I’m talking about atheism being a rational position, I’m not talking about the exact same thing. They are both lack of belief in gods, but in the former case it is implicit, due to lack of knowledge of any gods, while in the latter it is explicit, that is, the person has been informed of god claims and has rejected them.

Further confusion comes with the misunderstanding of what we mean by ‘god’. The word god means very different things to different people. There are several thousand recorded gods in the various religions and mythologies throughout human history. I can’t say I have more than cursory knowledge of more than a hundred. Then, there are god concepts offered by theologians that have never had an existence outside some theoretical argument, or held the belief of anyone, not even their author. There are god concepts that by definition are unprovable, undisprovable, or both. Even if we discount all of these, there are still infinite possibilities of concepts of gods, some that will be postulated in the future, and some that may never be actualized in theological thought, but could be viable candidates.

Any honest researcher will admit that you cannot make the claim that absolutely no gods exist until you examine every single claim, which is impossible. That is not what atheism claims. I don’t need to disprove any god concept to disbelieve it, and I don’t need to disprove every god concept to be justified in doing so.

There is another way to look at the question “why an atheist?” and that comes from my side of the fence. It’s basically the question of whether ‘atheist’ is the best term for what our position is. I’ll post my thoughts on that on my next article.

Keep reading…


This article was originally posted on the Confused Cogitations blog in English and you can direct your comments there.

Thoughts on christian non-answers…

 
Columnist:Darkchilde


In a greek forum I have many times argued with a fundamentalist greek orthodox. Whatever I ask, he avoids to answer, and he always brings forth the following arguments, to which I am presenting my own thoughts:

  • You do not know anything about the orthodox christian faith: I have been born and raised in Greece, and I was baptized in the orthodox christian faith as a baby. My grandmother and my godmother were very faithful and used to force me and took me to church with them. They tried to make me believe in orthodox christianity, I even was sent to Sunday school, to catechism. It did not work. There was too much irrationality. From the story of Adam and Eve to the stories about the lives of the various saints, a lot of things do not make sense, and I could not make sense of those, could not see their logic. Because there is no logic in faith. As Carl Sagan put it: Faith is belief without evidence. As I grew up, I started to understand more and more, that really Sagan is right, that there is no logic in belief, in faith. One has to blindly believe, never question your faith and your beliefs, never question the reality of all these… Because the day you start asking questions, is the day that you start seeing faith for what it really is: a big fat lie.

  • You do not understand the christian orthodox faith: On the contrary, I understand it very well. I have seen blind faith and what it can do. Unfortunately, blind faith only brings out evil. Because when you do not ask questions, but you blindly follow what you are given, then you just become a pawn to an idea, an organization. And, in this case, you become a slave to that idea, a pawn, a foot-soldier lying for Jesus. This faith makes people feel guilty for simple human things, from swearing and cursing to having sex, and many other things. This faith keeps people ignorant and illiterate, fills their heads with misogyny and racism, I unfortunately understand it very well, and have witnessed many of its forms and expressions.

  • Find a confessor/spiritual father from the church: this is a total non-answer! I do not want to go to a priest, confessor whatever from the church. I do not trust them. They know nothing about psychology, I do not think that they can help anyone. The only thing that those “spiritual fathers” will do is try to fill me with guilt for everything I do, make me feel inferior, try to imprison my spirit, and make me another foot-soldier for Jesus. I have explained many times that I do not trust confessors. With a 6 month seminary they go through, they cannot know and understand psychology. How can they diagnose a serious psychological illness such as monopolar/bipolar syndroms, schizophrenia, and more?

  • Read a book about the orthodox christian faith: This another evasive tactic. I do not want to read another book about the orthodox christian faith, What more can this book tell me from the Bible or from what the various priests and bishops say? And what is my stimulus to get one of these books and read it? Is there anyone giving me a good reason to do so? None at all. However, I have taken a look at various such books in bookstores. I have opened them and tried to read a few paragraphs, to see if they had something interesting to say, if there was something that would make me buy and read that book. So far, I have not found anything positive in those books. All they say is just the same old stuff that the christian faith says: repent sinners, you will burn in hell, do not do this, do not do that… In short, they are forbidding people from living their lives…

And of course, the last non-argument, and the one that is never going to convince me to become a believer:

  • You have to believe first in order to find god: if I have nothing to believe in, if I don’t have evidence for what I believe in, how can I even start believing? How many faithful have really found god? There are a lot of faithful who have never found this entity. And there are a lot of atheists who were faithful, and never found god. When those people looked for god, looked for answers, they saw that there is nothing there. No god. There is absolutely no evidence at this moment for god, for the existence of such an entity. And I am not only talking about the christian orthodox faith, but about all religions. I have met a lot of people online, a lot of people who once were fundamentalists, creationists and the like. Some of them were even priests, or were trying to be, and have studied the scriptures, have studied apologetics, they had gone the whole way. But when they looked deeper, and tried to find god, they did not find what they were looking for. To their credit, these people did not close their eyes and go back to their blankets of faith. They went deeper, they followed their logic, their critical thinking, the evidence. A lot of faithful would say that those people did not believe enough, that their faith was lacking and other similar arguments. But those people did believe, they felt that faith, those beliefs with all their hearts, with all their being.

The above do not constitute answers, nor arguments for god and for a religion. They are evasions, apologetics, a tactic for those who do not want to have a rational and intelligent discussion, who do not want to engage in dialogue or debate. I am ready and willing to have such a discussion, but when I ask questions, and the answers are always the above, then how do these people expect me to start believing? How can they expect me to throw my logic, my critical thought, my freedom out of the window? Where are the arguments for the existence of god? Where is the evidence? And what evidence is there that the orthodox faith is the one true faith, and not another, like islam or catholicism, or even one of the cargo cults?

Keep reading…


This article was originally posted on the Snippets and other stories from the Net blog in English and you can direct your comments there.